In terms of gore, yes, the Iliad does reach that level quite easily. However, the Iliad also long predates the existence of genre fiction. The overlap is visible because of the influences Homer's epic still has on the fantasy genre as a whole, as you recently explored in your breakdown of the fight scene from Howard's "The Phoenix and the Sword." Rather than saying the high level of violence and gore would mark the Iliad as dark fantasy, I would say that this aspect of dark fantasy can draw its roots back to great epics like the Iliad.
Actually, this series of essays is very useful to me. I have been deliberately NOT reading anything called dark fantasy, including your work, because I have automatically classified them all as hopeless, grimdark, nihilism. But reading through the "dark" elements, they all seem to be similar to other genres I do read: like epics or mil fantasy or mil scifi. It sounds like the main difference is not the "dark" elements per se, but the "transgressive" element? What does that mean?
Typically the same sort of things that people would view as transgressive in more standard work - sex, violence, body horror, the sorts of things that might make you recoil a bit. What pushes it into the realms of being dark fantasy, and especially grimdark fantasy, is how far these depictions go. Which is to say, how extreme their depictions can be. When handled appropriately, those aspects will tread near or toe the line of what most would find acceptable vs objectionable, or it may take a step or two over that line, but will remain in the service of the story being told.
The idea of the transgressive element is that these stories should present some grit and grime in them, so to speak. They should push boundaries, push at the comfort levels of the readers, and in so doing create a powerful contrast with the good deeds and the heroic goals the protagonists that should be taking center stage are attempting to bring about. The classifications you gave these stories - hopelessness, nihilism, depression, bleakness (to represent grimdark, since it can often take those two to a far extreme) - should be present, but not in a manner that overwhelms that core of hopefulness which should also be at the heart of a story. As I said in the essay, you can still have dark fantasy stories be tragedies, but it must still feel as if there is hope that the protagonists can succeed at what they're trying, even if they do ultimately fail.
I'm sure you can already see why this is a challenging balance to properly maintain, and it's made all the harder by the fact that a lot of people mistake those transgressive trappings as being the defining point as opposed to the contrasting challenges which the heroes are meant to try and overcome. Writers have a tendency to get lost in the weeds with those darker and edgier aspects. It's a similar issue to things like slasher horror. Barring a few exceptions like the original Halloween, Alien, and Predator, there's very little within that horror subgenre that's legitimately scary because the focus has been turned towards shocking visuals and over-the-top kills. People far more often watch slasher movies for laughs and maybe the occasional uncomfortable cringe than they do any actual thrills or lingering fright.
As another note, because there's a lot of overlap in these genres, it's worthwhile to note what makes dark fantasy different from horror. When properly approached, horror's goal is to create a sense of discomfort that forces the audience to look at and consider the sorts of dangerous and frightening things we tend not to want to, and generally don't think about in our day-to-day. Dark fantasy's goal is to present similarly disquieting settings and scenarios, but ultimately use them to showcase the strength of the human spirit by presenting people willing and able to fight against it. Another way of looking at it is that with their best efforts put forward, horror tends to be cautionary and will have that sense of hopelessness and dread, where dark fantasy aims to be hopeful and inspiring in the face of hopelessness and dread.
As I see it, agency. Dark fantasy, when it's at its best, is about heroes finding the ability to persevere against, or at least bravely stand up to, the horrors placed in their paths. They won't always be successful, many dark fantasies are tragedies after all, but it's their ability to put forth that stand which is the difference maker.
Horror is more about placing characters in terrible situations and then removing their agency from them. The choices they have become increasingly limited as the story progresses. Just like dark fantasy, this doesn't mean they're guaranteed to lose in the end. Sometimes they'll come out on top and survive, but even a happy ending in a horror story isn't much of one because of just how much is lost along the way. (This is why blatantly happy endings in horror movies often feel cheesy and out of place, they can break this balance.)
There's also a difference in what each wants out of its audience. Dark fantasy aims to present harrowing but ultimately heroic tales that leaves the audience feeling like they've been through a struggle that the characters might be able to overcome. Horror seeks to dig deeper inside and draw our feelings of discomfort and unease to the surface, reflecting them back at us so that we're forced to confront them. Naturally there will be some overlap, and how successful any individual story within these genres is at accomplishing these goals can vary wildly. I'd argue that horror and dark fantasy, right alongside romance, probably have the most challenging balancing act to maintain. It's very easy to stray into the realms of absurdity and cringe by taking the spicier elements of any of those genres too far.
Would you consider "The Wheel of Time" a dark fantasy? It has many of the same elements that Game of Thrones does, just not to the same extreme. It's got half of the one source that drives men insane. It's got ancient heroes reborn in Ta'averen. Parts of it are grimdark.
I know that Lovecraft is considered horror, but couldn't that also be dark fantasy?
I'd say Wheel of Time is epic fantasy with some dark touches, but doesn't quite reach the levels of full blown dark fantasy, at least based on what I read of it. There's a particular tone that's typical to dark fantasy that Wheel of Time didn't really have. I'd say it was a bit darker than Lord of the Rings overall, but doesn't go so dark as the likes of Solomon Kane or Conan, which is the level at which I'd start to consider a story dark fantasy.
I can see an argument for Lovecraft fitting the bill, but I'd argue it's not for a couple reasons. The main one is that the hopeless inability of man to affect the cosmic in any way is a key aspect to his horror, while dark fantasy really should at least offer the potential of hope. (He considered Howard's usage of his concepts in Conan to be canonical, and Conan managed to outwit and escape or sometimes even slay the Lovecraftian monsters he faced, which Lovecraft's characters never managed without going insane.) That inherent inability to overcome is a horror touchstone that dark fantasy will admittedly borrow, but they're usually utilized differently in the sense that dark fantasy will usually use it as a means to quash the hopes of a capable hero, where Lovecraft's horror seeks to get into your head with the notion that the chance of success was never there to begin with.
Great article! I had no idea the chaos symbol from 40k was stolen ... I’m going to go out of my way to make sure my Tzeentch army has none of the traditional chaos symbols!
I haven’t read much dark fantasy, but I love my dystopian fiction; the emphasis on ‘hopelessness’ irks me there too - even in great works like 1984.
Such a poignant analysis! I so enjoyed reading this.
This is a much more nuanced treatment of the material than we sometimes see. Good job!
And ... I'm confused. In terms of gore, the Iliad would count as dark fantasy.
In terms of gore, yes, the Iliad does reach that level quite easily. However, the Iliad also long predates the existence of genre fiction. The overlap is visible because of the influences Homer's epic still has on the fantasy genre as a whole, as you recently explored in your breakdown of the fight scene from Howard's "The Phoenix and the Sword." Rather than saying the high level of violence and gore would mark the Iliad as dark fantasy, I would say that this aspect of dark fantasy can draw its roots back to great epics like the Iliad.
Actually, this series of essays is very useful to me. I have been deliberately NOT reading anything called dark fantasy, including your work, because I have automatically classified them all as hopeless, grimdark, nihilism. But reading through the "dark" elements, they all seem to be similar to other genres I do read: like epics or mil fantasy or mil scifi. It sounds like the main difference is not the "dark" elements per se, but the "transgressive" element? What does that mean?
Typically the same sort of things that people would view as transgressive in more standard work - sex, violence, body horror, the sorts of things that might make you recoil a bit. What pushes it into the realms of being dark fantasy, and especially grimdark fantasy, is how far these depictions go. Which is to say, how extreme their depictions can be. When handled appropriately, those aspects will tread near or toe the line of what most would find acceptable vs objectionable, or it may take a step or two over that line, but will remain in the service of the story being told.
The idea of the transgressive element is that these stories should present some grit and grime in them, so to speak. They should push boundaries, push at the comfort levels of the readers, and in so doing create a powerful contrast with the good deeds and the heroic goals the protagonists that should be taking center stage are attempting to bring about. The classifications you gave these stories - hopelessness, nihilism, depression, bleakness (to represent grimdark, since it can often take those two to a far extreme) - should be present, but not in a manner that overwhelms that core of hopefulness which should also be at the heart of a story. As I said in the essay, you can still have dark fantasy stories be tragedies, but it must still feel as if there is hope that the protagonists can succeed at what they're trying, even if they do ultimately fail.
I'm sure you can already see why this is a challenging balance to properly maintain, and it's made all the harder by the fact that a lot of people mistake those transgressive trappings as being the defining point as opposed to the contrasting challenges which the heroes are meant to try and overcome. Writers have a tendency to get lost in the weeds with those darker and edgier aspects. It's a similar issue to things like slasher horror. Barring a few exceptions like the original Halloween, Alien, and Predator, there's very little within that horror subgenre that's legitimately scary because the focus has been turned towards shocking visuals and over-the-top kills. People far more often watch slasher movies for laughs and maybe the occasional uncomfortable cringe than they do any actual thrills or lingering fright.
As another note, because there's a lot of overlap in these genres, it's worthwhile to note what makes dark fantasy different from horror. When properly approached, horror's goal is to create a sense of discomfort that forces the audience to look at and consider the sorts of dangerous and frightening things we tend not to want to, and generally don't think about in our day-to-day. Dark fantasy's goal is to present similarly disquieting settings and scenarios, but ultimately use them to showcase the strength of the human spirit by presenting people willing and able to fight against it. Another way of looking at it is that with their best efforts put forward, horror tends to be cautionary and will have that sense of hopelessness and dread, where dark fantasy aims to be hopeful and inspiring in the face of hopelessness and dread.
10/10 article. Absolutely recommend for anyone wanting to get into writing dark fantasy.
Yes, I had the idea that dark fantasy was lack of hope. Interesting. So what's the difference between dark fantasy and horror?
As I see it, agency. Dark fantasy, when it's at its best, is about heroes finding the ability to persevere against, or at least bravely stand up to, the horrors placed in their paths. They won't always be successful, many dark fantasies are tragedies after all, but it's their ability to put forth that stand which is the difference maker.
Horror is more about placing characters in terrible situations and then removing their agency from them. The choices they have become increasingly limited as the story progresses. Just like dark fantasy, this doesn't mean they're guaranteed to lose in the end. Sometimes they'll come out on top and survive, but even a happy ending in a horror story isn't much of one because of just how much is lost along the way. (This is why blatantly happy endings in horror movies often feel cheesy and out of place, they can break this balance.)
There's also a difference in what each wants out of its audience. Dark fantasy aims to present harrowing but ultimately heroic tales that leaves the audience feeling like they've been through a struggle that the characters might be able to overcome. Horror seeks to dig deeper inside and draw our feelings of discomfort and unease to the surface, reflecting them back at us so that we're forced to confront them. Naturally there will be some overlap, and how successful any individual story within these genres is at accomplishing these goals can vary wildly. I'd argue that horror and dark fantasy, right alongside romance, probably have the most challenging balancing act to maintain. It's very easy to stray into the realms of absurdity and cringe by taking the spicier elements of any of those genres too far.
Great essay! It makes me want to pick up the Elric and The Witcher books again…I started both series a few years ago and never finished them.
Would you consider "The Wheel of Time" a dark fantasy? It has many of the same elements that Game of Thrones does, just not to the same extreme. It's got half of the one source that drives men insane. It's got ancient heroes reborn in Ta'averen. Parts of it are grimdark.
I know that Lovecraft is considered horror, but couldn't that also be dark fantasy?
I'd say Wheel of Time is epic fantasy with some dark touches, but doesn't quite reach the levels of full blown dark fantasy, at least based on what I read of it. There's a particular tone that's typical to dark fantasy that Wheel of Time didn't really have. I'd say it was a bit darker than Lord of the Rings overall, but doesn't go so dark as the likes of Solomon Kane or Conan, which is the level at which I'd start to consider a story dark fantasy.
I can see an argument for Lovecraft fitting the bill, but I'd argue it's not for a couple reasons. The main one is that the hopeless inability of man to affect the cosmic in any way is a key aspect to his horror, while dark fantasy really should at least offer the potential of hope. (He considered Howard's usage of his concepts in Conan to be canonical, and Conan managed to outwit and escape or sometimes even slay the Lovecraftian monsters he faced, which Lovecraft's characters never managed without going insane.) That inherent inability to overcome is a horror touchstone that dark fantasy will admittedly borrow, but they're usually utilized differently in the sense that dark fantasy will usually use it as a means to quash the hopes of a capable hero, where Lovecraft's horror seeks to get into your head with the notion that the chance of success was never there to begin with.
Great article! I had no idea the chaos symbol from 40k was stolen ... I’m going to go out of my way to make sure my Tzeentch army has none of the traditional chaos symbols!
I haven’t read much dark fantasy, but I love my dystopian fiction; the emphasis on ‘hopelessness’ irks me there too - even in great works like 1984.